Can't We All Just Get Along?

[akirlu]

In the last year, or so, my social landscape has become increasingly dotted with landmines. A number of the people I know and hold dear are Not Friends Anymore. With each other, I mean. And in pretty much every case, I like all the parties concerned and have not the smallest interest in chosing one over the other, playing favorites, or otherwise reverting to Jr. High social dynamics.

So all this falling out among former friends, lovers, and partners makes me feel sad, inadequate, and dreadfully, dreadfully awkward. I don't really know what to do, when I'm organizing a frimbrezzling expedition, and start assembling a participant list in my head, and then get pulled up short because Ferd and Flossie are both long-time ardent frimbrezzlers, to whom I owe many a brezzled frim, but they're not currently speaking to each other. Furthermore Dolly loves frimbrezzling, and Doris has never been, but would like to try it. Only ever since the blow-up, you can't get the two of them into the same room. Should I invite everybody, and warn them of the guest list, and let them decide? Do I just leave Dolly, Doris, Ferd, and Flossie all off the invitation list and let them draw their own conclusions should they hear about it afterwards? Should I organize two frimbrezzling expeditions, with two different guest lists? Should I just give up on this whole stupid frimbrezzling business and take up a solitary hobby?

The whole thing also makes me angry. I've watched other friends actively disinvite one friend from major events, to make another more comfortable. What the hell? I want everyone to feel welcome and comfortable, but I find it really hard to avoid resenting both the friends doing the disinviting, and the person whose behalf the disinvitation was issued. I think it's a crappy way of handling the whole thing. Except that I don't have a good positive model to substitute for it.

I dunno. Maybe I should write a letter to Miss Manners. Surely there's got to be some extant social etiquette for dealing with your post-divorce friends in a sensitive and loving way? In the mean time, if I put my unbrezzled frims up for sale on craigslist, you'll know why.

Yeah, there are worse problems to have, and yeah, I recognize that other people's pain is not All About Me, but dammit, a happy and well-functioning social network is a precious resource, and there have got to be ways of protecting and nurturing that network, even when some of the nodes drop their connections. Is there a guidebook?

Comments

[athenais.livejournal.com]

I always choose two outings so as to avoid the most pain for the most people, including me as the hostess. But occasionally that's not an option, and then I usually choose to inform the mortal enemies that I'm inviting them both and they can come or not. It sometimes means neither will come. I would never disinvite someone; the thought is appalling. There is no convincingly valid reason to do it and many strong arguments against it. I'd be angry, too.

It's not much fun trying to plan a party under those circumstances.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I would never disinvite someone; the thought is appalling.

Oh, thank you. I needed that validation, because I seemed to be the only person who was outraged by it. I was beginning to think it was just me and my resentful nature again.

[kate-schaefer.livejournal.com]

There was a fair amount of quiet outrage.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Oh, good. Well, you know, not good, but ... Anyway, I guess I'm hard of hearing when it comes to quiet outrage, or something. I'm glad I wasn't alone, anyway.

[fastfwd.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize this post was actually in reference to something that had actually occurred.

Duh.

:)

But for the record, I've never disinvited anyone to anything. When I've been invited to something and discovered that one of the other attendees was not my favourite person, I would never expect--or demand--that that person be disinvited. In fact, I suspect I would think less of the person who did the disinviting.

But this is all in the hypothetical. You never know what your gut reaction will be in the actual.

What am I talking about? I don't know. Therefore I should shut up.:)

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Also, you are wise in all things social. I shall adopt you as my muse.

[fastfwd.livejournal.com]

No, there's no guidebook that I know of. I wish there were. I haven't had much time to organize anything like a frimbezzling expedition, or even dinner. But if I were going to do something like that, I would send a copy of the guestlist/invitees to all concerned. Or, if only two people were involved, I would speak with each of them privately, noting that a happy and well-functioning social network is a precious resource (well said).

Personally, I hate the idea of falling out with someone and never speaking to them again. There are only a few things that would cause me to do such a thing myself, and they're all felonies involving long prison sentences. Having been forgiven myself for a few prize boneheaded moves, I can't withhold forgiveness in turn, whether asked for or not.

Don't tell anybody, though; I have a reputation as a scary bitch to protect.:)

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Good on you for your willing forgiveness. Forgiveness is powerful stuff, and is especially beneficial to the forgiver, surprisingly. In some ways I wish forgiveness weren't so tightly associated with Christianity, because forgiveness merits doing for its own sake, irrespective of whether the God of the Christians exists or not. It is an extremely useful social and psychological tool, and yay to thems as use it.

But your secret is safe with me. I am silent as the grave.

[txanne.livejournal.com]

If you figure it out, don't forget to tell me how.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

If I figure it out, I will sell it for a million dollars. But I will tell you first.

[jrittenhouse.livejournal.com]

There's not a good way to manage it and keep everyone totally happy. It's right up there with kids screaming about 'his is better/bigger' divisions of food, etc.

I will freely admit that when I was one of those people, I tended to be upset enough at the Other Person that it made some people around me uncomfortable. Fortunately, I only lost a few connections directly because of the breakup, and those were largely people whose connection to me was totally predicated on the Other Person. In short, they were Their Buds, and They Didn't Want To Deal With Me.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

I have to say to the credit of my friends that there has been little or no toxic overspill on the rest of us, just, you know, frigid or awkward relations in the aftermath(s).

I, too, have lost connections associated with my partner after a break, but it was always pretty clear that they were his friends first and foremost. I never really expected the connection to survive the primary relationship.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

My stepmother was very surprised that Mother and Dad's old friends weren't now her friends.

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

My Rules By Mris Age 29 (but not for long!)

1. I never actively disinvite people short of, like, violent crimes. That's just rude. (By "disinvite," I mean either inviting someone and then rescinding the invitation or else contacting someone to let them know that they, specifically, are not invited to x event and should please not come.)

2. I never hold completely open parties, so I don't have to worry about people just assuming that of course I would want them or their friend y along despite a lack of invitation. People can usually say to me, "Can I bring y?" and I will say yes or no, and often the no is just because I wanted a dozen people and not thirty rather than because y is a pariah in my home. But it does leave room for, "Oh, I'm afraid I hadn't meant to invite y," to be for y-related reasons rather than larger social reasons.

3. I make a point of never, never holding my friends responsible for their other friends' behavior when they were not there to witness it. There are people in my larger social circle who have engaged in behavior that makes them unwelcome in my home, but who have been very very good to friends of mine. At my friends' gatherings, I am polite to them, and as actively kind as I can manage to be, and I don't expect other people to work around my opinions of their other friends. Not everything that's important to me has to be important to all of my friends.

4. I don't invite people who have recently feuded to the same small gathering. If it's a large gathering, I figure they can do as they like, but if I'm having a half-dozen people over, I won't make them recent exes or etc.

[bibliofile.livejournal.com]

I especially agree with #4.

If it's been over a year, though, I will be less gentle (and quite possibly forget that they are feuding). OTOH, I tend not to hold small gatherings, which helps.

[farmgirl1146.livejournal.com]

I understand, and you have my deepest sympathies on having to deal with this. There is no guidebook. You have entered the minefield at the far end of the twilight zone.

I have been dealing with a similar situation since 2001 between two college friends of mine. There are six of us, but only five of us are able to be somewhere at the same time. We go through what you describe all the time. It is lunacy at its worst. I have come to hold one more responsible than the other (both can be quite stubborn and pig-headed) because she started it and would not gracefully accept an apology even if it wasn't everything she wanted to smooth things over.

Friday I had my latest incursion into this mucky part of friendship. (I will call them A and B, pro forma.) I mentioned to A that I might take B to see A's 92+ y/o mother. God only knows why I said anything!!!!! We were on the phone, but I heard her back arch and even though I didn't really hear it, she hissed. She told me, "Don't try patching this up. You always want to fix things. It's been really hard on Mom that B dropped her when she dropped me. She really misses seeing B. I don't see why you would want to take B to see Mom. You shouldn't try to fix things." I have heard this tortured line of reasoning from A since The Princess Diaries movie came out. I had told B that A's mother had moved into an assisted living situation -- but she has her own cottage. A and B are kept informed of each other's doings, and sometimes know more than the rest of us. B had said to arrange to visit on a weekend day, when she could go with me. We do a lot of things together, as we have since college.

I wish you good luck, time and money to do multiple outings, and most of all the patience and restraint to hold your tongue. So now you know that I know what you are dealing with and in for. I don't know if you are affected by some of the same things that are going on in our shared social circle, but if you are you should know that it may be widening. I had to duck flack last week. Some days would be nice to be able to sell one's unbrezzled frims and start over. Other days the unbrezzled frims are too dear.

[farmgirl1146.livejournal.com]

Love the title of this post. It's oh so true.

[fishbliss.livejournal.com]

While I can think of lots of interesting mental games to play here, I think you only have a couple of good practical choices. In both cases, you don't try to manage other people's relationships, or even try to keep track of them. After all, it's not your problem, it's theirs.

Solution 1: "Cut deeply to make sure you've got all the bad tissue"
Disinvite anybody from your frimbrezzling list whom you know to have issues with anybody else on the list. This approach is an attempt to avoid any possible landmines or public display of junior high stupidty. The downsides of this approach are that you end up still having to expend the energy to manage your frimslist to try to weed out the potential conflicts.

Solution 2: "It's your problem, not mine."
Ignore the politics. Invite whoever you'd like to brezzle frims with. If two folks both show up and decide they don't want to play nice together, it's their problem, not yours. If they stay, if they leave, if they kill each other, not your problem. You just go on and brezzle as many frims as your permit allows.

Twenty years ago I would have selected Solution 1, or a variant.
Now that I'm older and presumably wiser, it would be door number 2.
It's not your problem, it belongs to others, and it's up to them to deal with it or not.

[fishbliss.livejournal.com]

Hmm, my advice contradicts my preface. You do have to keep track of the friends' relationships at some level of detail. So that is more work for you.

[lintninja.livejournal.com]

Disinvite? What kind of crap is that? Either you invite someone or you don't. If you feel that two or may not get along,let them know who is comming and they can duke it out, or not. I know whatyou mean about this situation in general. It's very uncomfortable for all. I wish that we could all just get along, but I also recognise that this is not always going to happen andpeople need time for things to heal up and ge tto where they can be in the same room without dramatic consequences. It's life. what a pain that is.

Miss Manners missed a spot

[u-must-b-joking.livejournal.com]

Let me just say that I am uncomfortably aware of this ish in my own life too and sometimes I just want to bang heads together. Oh, that would be SO constructive.

Be out about not participating in feuds. That's all the suggestion I have in me. I mean, if an adult can't pull off 'coldly civil' they're not much of an adult.

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

For most things, my attitude is "we're all adults here". Which means I invite who I hope to see, and people avoid talking to each other if they must. Or don't come. If they come and make a scene, that may affect my interest in seeing them on future occasions.

If B can't stand to see A, but A can stand to have be in the next room, then that probably means A gets to come to my parties, and B decides they can't. When they grow up (or heal) a bit, they can start coming. If they get really pissed at me, I'll survive somehow; if necessary without them around.

If I get the idea that B is trying to get *me* to not invite A for their benefit, it won't improve my attitude one bit.

I tend to give open parties or else small selected events, which in many ways makes it easier.

The fact that my local social group culture doesn't terribly support cutting off contact with people helps, too.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

All of this is the way J and I handle it, too.

[sethb.livejournal.com]

I believe Miss Manners has answered that question. You invite your friends (whoever you want to attend); if they choose not to attend (due to someone else on the guest list or for any other reason), that's their decision.

[maryread.livejournal.com]

I was going to say, I thot Miss Manners had something worked out.

Along the same lines, what DD B said about being grown-ups. Unfortunately, mileage varies. Many years ago I heard this theory described as Vanguard's modus operandi. Things change?

Having open-invitation-crashers arrive at a short-list-event effectively broke my book discussion group years ago. I'm still miffed.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

Not only Miss Manners, but her predecessors as well. It's the standard advice in etiquette.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I was disinvited to something. No, the person called me up to explain why I wasn't invited in case I heard about it. And seemed surprised later that I was hurt because, you know, she's so very sensitive and thoughtful.

I still won't go to any local shindig if she will be there.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Ugh. That sucks. It just sucks.

Although, I have to confess that I have also disinvited people, once. I handed a party invitation to the then-OE of APA-L (the LASFS-affiliated weekly apa) because I was inviting him to the party. Without checking with me, he assumed that the party invitation was meant to be a contribution to APA-L, and made 30 copies and published it that week. I was faced with the choice of having an invitational party turned into an open party -- which was Oh So Not going to fly with my housemates -- or else to do the shitty thing and explain that the publication was a mistake and the party was invitation-only. I did the shitty thing. It pretty much sucked all around.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Ouch! In my case, I think I was not cool enough for the person's wealthy relatives. I certainly had no feuds going, but I am a fannish nerd. So when she called to explain that in case I heard that she'd had this party, it was only for relatives, and not five minutes after we hung up a fan friend who is no relatives of hers (but stylish and wealthy) called to ask if I wanted a ride with another fan friend (also well to do) I had to say, "Um no, I just got a call to make sure I knew I wasn't invited." I always remember that if I think my ego is getting too big.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

I got disinvited to meet some fancy Broadway theater people by my former best friend. At the last minute she told me I would be "uncomfortable" at their very fancy house. She was only thinking of me, honest. But I knew she suddenly realized I couldn't help her career; I wouldn't impress them. I forgave her, because I understood, but I stopped considering her a friend.

That's the problem with disinviting: it's lose-lose.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Yep.

[marykaykare.livejournal.com]

Yeah -- I've been disinvited to things myself and it really really sucks. Unfortunately for me the X who my presence would make uncomfortable is a pretty high status person, so I'm the one who gets disinvited...

MKK

[farmgirl1146.livejournal.com]

I am so sorry to learn of the misperceptions of others: no one has a higher status than you. The goober should sink to the bottom of the tar pits!

And, I am told, your nose is more precious than treats. Someone still wants walkies with you: not some poop who has walks through Hades daily because he is your ex. I asked what she thinks of someone who is your ex, and she burped. She's such an honest little person :-).

[joyful-storm.livejournal.com]

I've had a long-time tendency to have friends on both sides of the divide. I operate under the belief that I am known to do so, and I usually just invite anyone I'd like and have a good time with those who choose to join me. If someone doesn't come because of the guest list, I'll likely catch up with them one-on-one or in a smaller group some other time.

I admit to having done the "parallel outings with the same guest list except for one spot" thing at least once, though. I see my East Coast friends so rarely that I just don't even want to get into the mess, I just want to see everyone I possibly can, however I can make it work.

[paulcarp.livejournal.com]

In real, actual, life, I ignore it. I invite whom I please. I don't disinvite. Yes it has the cost of not seeing certain friends or acquaintances that I'd sometimes rather see than the person who shows up. But it's not my problem.

But in my evil mind, I invite enemies on the same invitation, altering which one it gets sent to. That way they can hash it out in advance.

To: John & John's ex Mary
Hallowe'en Party 2006 Invitation

To: Mary & Mary's ex John
Hallowe'en Party 2007 Invitation

[apostle-of-eris.livejournal.com]

1) For myself, if I haven't been damaged/assaulted/betrayed/whatever, I'm unlikely to cut someone from my list because of their problems with someone else, unless it's startlingly egregious.

2) As for disinviting, there was a wonderful benchmark way back when Wilcon was a big crowd. There were only two rules: work one cook shift and one clean-up shift a day, and keep Joni happy. One year, a major fughead who has long since gaffiated spent the entire long weekend at the poker table.
Midge Reitan and Dana Siegel actually sent out the invitations for Joni. The following year, the fughead's wife, each of his kids, and his mistress each got individually addressed invitations, and he did not get one.
((Wilcon was a 4th-of-July weekend party at the Stopas' place at Wilmot Mountain, which eventually grew to a backyard tent city, and they opened the ski lodge kitchen for the meals. Yeah, a somewhat select mob of fen got to spend all year concocting menus and recruiting teams to cook for a hundred and fifty. wow! yum!!)

3) My positive suggestion is to set a time limit. Decide how many hears a grudge is good for, and when it ought to have expired, forget about it. It's less trouble, and if they can't fix their own messes it's not your problem.
Last Minicon, someone explained something important to me: Minnesota Nice may be great for conflict avoidance, but it sucks for conflict resolution. That's why there are people who will never again go to a Minicon, even though the committee which so offended them was four committees ago, and there's nothing left of whatever it was that ticked them off.
I have only one person whom I'd cut regardless of the decades, but that's a uniquely extreme case. There's an accessory (yes, there were felonies) whom I have tempered my response down to wary of, but that's my entire permanent list.
It's easier that way.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Miss Manners has already answered this. You invite everybody and they decide on their own if they're coming or not. No need to offer the guest list.

I'm sorry this is happening. Usually it means the other people separate with rancor, and you always hope that won't happen, but it isn't something you can legislate. Invite them all; let them work it out. All they really have to do is say Hello to each other and then stay on opposite sides of the room, if it's really that bad.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

I've never looked at your LJ before, just the posts in my flist. I had no idea you were the Snarkmaiden!

But I came here to point out this amazingly rude response to an invitation.

[prettymuchpeggy.livejournal.com]

1) Inviting and Not Inviting as inviter
A) Small gatherings
I try to egalitarian with my small gatherings. If you are a friend, I make you well aware that there will be a party and who I am inviting and when I will be having an small gathering to which you will be invited. If asked, I will let you know why the invite or not. I find an upfront approach most freeing because my possition is clear from the beginning.

B) Large gatherings
I invite everyone and let people who have trouble work it out. Again I am upfront. My expectation is that you will coming because you feel you will have a good time. My rule "Don't come with a chip on your shoulder."

3) Being invited and/or politely declining
I have found that I don't tend to work well on eggshells or being a fifth wheel and will politely decline if I feel that eggshells or fifth wheelhood is the likely situation. However this only the case where I know that I will be invited to other things. If the invitations are few and far between I will take my chances. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't.

Having had a few recent disasters on this front- I would rather not be put in a "command" performance situation. For good friends I am likely to show up for a "you will be there" despite the eggshell/fifth wheel feeling when really pushed. My expectation on that point is kid gloves will be used. 99% of the time I will have a good time, but in recent history there have been a Minicon and a couple of parties where I went and 'nough said.

4) Not inviting
If I am not invited, I would like to know up front. I will ask why. This eleaviates the self-esteme trashing monsters from invading my brain. Small gatherings are meant to be an opportunity for more direct contact with people. I can totally understand that. If it a large gathering, I would prefer to make the choice as to whether or not to deal with so and so myself.

5) Disinviting someone is very rude as it shows little respect to the person that you invited even if it intended to keep the person from harm.