A Few "Fundamental" Observations

[akirlu]

If you are an asshole on the side of the angels, at the end of the day, you've still been an asshole.

If other people experience you being an asshole in a good cause, they may only notice the "you being an asshole" part.

A deep feeling of righteousness is not a saving throw against acting like an asshole; arguably, it increases the likelihood.

Being morally righteous doesn't excuse assholery. Morals and manners are orthogonal norms.

If you think these observations only apply to people who disagree with you, you're probably wrong.

Comments

[kate-schaefer.livejournal.com]

Are you saying this from the position of being irritated at the self-righteous, or from the self-smacking position of having noticed your own self stumbling in this way?

I've certainly been both of those people and will undoubtedly be both of them again. Needing to whack oneself about the head and shoulders is one of the downsides of trying to live the examined life.

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Moral superiority: always obnoxious.

[kaffy-r.livejournal.com]

Correct as Usual, King Friday/Mr. Roger's Neighborhood

I've experienced it, and I just know I've been an asshole. Learning not to sphincterize one's existence, or other people's enjoyment of life, is a difficult task.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Not really either. It's more finally having distilled the observations into a fairly pithy format. I noticed some patterns while watching various "discussions" of race unfold around LJ a coupla years back. I was later reminded of my half-formed conclusions by the totally sincere question, from a smart person of great brane, why people seldom seemed either grateful or apologetic when being informed that they were behaving in a racist manner.

It's a fabulous question, and highly instructive. To me the answer is pretty obvious: normal adult humans (non-fans, anyhow) typically find it rude to have other adult people correct them in public, even on matters of fact. When value judgments are at issue, the perceived rudeness goes up a notch. Or several. If the values are not shared, you're probably off the charts. If you publicly tell someone that their spouse is ugly, that their children are ill-mannered brats, or that they're flaunting too much cleavage, you don't seriously expect their first response to be gratitude or apology. You may reasonably expect to be thought an asshole.

Yet the same people who would never dream of publicly berating anyone for failure to conform to their own standards of beauty, manners, or dress, seem to think nothing at all of the idea of handing out their judgments in matters of bigotry. Of course they don't. Bigotry is Wrong. But that's a value claim, not a factual one. And there isn't any kind of exception clause that says that rudeness isn't rude if it's morally justified. It may well be justified rudeness. It may be necessary rudeness. It may be that rudeness is the most effective way to get the message across (though in my experience, odds are against it). But it doesn't just magically stop being rude. And I think people arguing about value judgments might stand a better chance of actually hearing each other if they remember what kinds of responses they should expect from rudeness, and only use rudeness when they specifically mean to be rude.

Me, I am sometimes quite deliberately rude, when trying to make a point. My own worst failing in this regard is that I keep falling for the attractive, but I think wholly false, notion that if I mirror other people's unfortunate behavior back at them, they will notice that their behavior is unfortunate. This never happens. That particular mirror simply does reflect. I wish I could remember that and let it go.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Yet *****so***** seductive. There's a good reason why pride is listed among the deadly sins, I think.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

King Friday? You saying I have a fondness for giving long-winded speeches and using big words....? Oh. Yeah. Well, okay, it's a fair cop, guv.

Me, I don't really even hope never to be an asshole again, I'd just like to learn to limit it to cases where it's the right tool. Even that is probably hoping for too much.

[greyorm.livejournal.com]

"My own worst failing in this regard is that I keep falling for the attractive, but I think wholly false, notion that if I mirror other people's unfortunate behavior back at them, they will notice that their behavior is unfortunate. This never happens."

Yeah. Me too.